A Convo on Gender Roles, Dating & other stuff 2 : The two issues we aren’t dealing with

When Last we Left ….


Today, men are given confusing and contradictory advice. Socially, they are expected to be “compliant” (i.e. cooperative) partners to women. However, they are also urged by women’s sexual interest to maintain an “attractive personality” (i.e. assertive and ambitious). Unfortunately, men sometimes report that attempting to balance these notions does not result in satisfaction, happiness, or women’s appreciation and respect.

… men lament about being in a “no win situation” in modern dating. If they follow what society tells them to do, they often end up “good guys” who are taken advantage of, mistreated, and disrespected. In contrast, if they follow more “assertive” biological imperatives, they are labeled “jerks” and “players”—who may get sexual gratification, but not love or respect from what they would consider a “good woman”. Overall, they report that there is often little incentive for men to date and even less for them to consider long-term commitments.



If for a second, I believed anything society told me I would have killed myself a long time ago. Society has a vested interest in you working to maintain its biases, inherent power structures, and lies. Every time some one talks about peace, coming together, free thought, they get killed! Killed !!!

I believe that there is a direct relationship between how much you benefit from society and how much you believe the nonsense it wants you to ingest. It’s been clear to me that society doesn’t value my life so I don’t drink the Kool Aid offered. Society by it’s very nature cannot promote individuality. It has to treat people as pieces of meat that act a specific set of ways under a handful of conditions. Furthermore, unless you are a Caucasian of a certain class society has never cared for you.

We can agree that our society is a going through changes. I feel as many others do that we are put at odd with who and what we are. Or in other words, we are facing a conflict between social demands and biological motivations. A psychologists advises that: “until something changes, the best we can all do is adapt and find our own, unique way.”

I am going to offer you my thoughts: THE ONLY WINNING MOVE IS NOT TO PLAY.

I will be saying more on this later.

The Reality

I try to be as realistic as possible. I have no allegiance to Men’s or Women’s Right’s movements. My allegiance is to self-respect, common sense and humanism. What I do know well is myself. I spent a lot of time getting to know my self (that’s actually not a masturbation joke). I push myself, learn new things, engage people etc. I’ve come to a point where I can identify my voice from the multitudes of voices telling me: what I should aspire to, what I should look for, how I should behave, etc. I have settled on three rules for myself:

  1. My happiness is paramount I like everyone else is search for meaning and something real help us move forward to the vision of how we want to live.
  2. I never do something because I am supposed to, rather I do things because I want to do it.
  3. Be sincere. What I feel internally should match what I say externally. I should never repress or silence what I feel

Looking at Sex & Gender Roles

I have been informed that that there are many “strategies” guys use to deal with the frustrating dating scene. Some dudes opt out of the dating game completely. This is actually a movement called Men Going Their Own Way Movement. Other dudes get into the whole pick up artist scene, etc. To be honest with you, I was dumbfounded reading about all this stuff. To me these “strategies” are only momentary patches on a larger problem in my opinion. The problem is two fold:

  1. Coming to terms with the advances and collateral damage of feminism.
  2. Suppression and demonization of the expression of masculinity.

Until we deal with both issues, we will not make any real progress I feel. I am going to leave this here and go one from this place.



    • Hola Asklotta,

      I love the quote. It reminds of one from Hafiz where he says (paraphrasing) That the only veil between the truth and us is ourselves. He said it much better.

      Im not sure though what you were responding to with that quote. Could you elaborate ?


      • Ciao amico…Love your quote (paraphrasing)! But to answer your question, I was responding to the under and over tones of your post. It felt as if you were playing a head game with yourself. “THE ONLY WINNING MOVE IS NOT TO PLAY.” As long as you inhale and exhale you’re in the game whether you like it or not.
        Not to do something is doing something…example, watching a glass of water slide off a table. To do nothing to stop it, is making the decision to have the glass smash to the ground into many pieces and spilling water everywhere.
        Another one of my favorite quotes…”If you don’t design your own life plan, chances are you’ll fall into someone else’s plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much.”
        -Jim Rohn
        It is NOT up to society to value your life, it is completely up to YOU!


      • Hey Asklotta,

        Thanks for your comment!

        Not playing the game for me means not following the dictates of society or social and familial expectations and I have lived that at the expense of alienating family and friends. Like for example not marrying MrsMary but living together. Or not going to medical school when my parents were trying to force me in that direction. As long as we live and operate in society we will have to play along to the terms of the social contract, but we can still consciously decided what to engage that will help us work towards our own actualizationv- thats what I mean


      • Except…you are playing a game…Your game, doing the opposite of what people who love you, want you to do. Young children will play this game to exercise control in their life. For example, a parent telling a child it’s time for bed. The child says, no I’m not going to bed, I’m not tired, even though he can barely keep his eyes open. Are you sure your decisions on marriage and becoming a doctor are the reasons you stated OR have you convinced yourself of those reasons bc trying really hard and failing, is far more painful to deal with then not trying. Example, the kid that fails the math test and says to his friends. I didn’t study, didn’t pick up a book, it means nothing to me. Instead of, I studied really hard, this meant the world to me, I really wanted to do great, 95% of the class did great. OR trying out for a sports team and getting cut… (lots of humble pie) But, I have to say, failing has provided me with some of my greatest moments! Humble pie always taste so delicious with a side of honesty!


      • Ola Lotta,

        I think as long as we are in a society everything can be reduced to playing a game. After all a p”the game of life” is a common popular expression. I was using the “game” in a more specific context. Like if family is pushing me towards something I don’t want to do, “I’m not going to play that game”. The point was to always make sure one is true to thine own self. If I don’t feel something, if I am not moved by something I cannot and shouldn’t engage in that thing because it will make someone happy. I lose all credibility as a man if I do that.

        For my decisions for med school, After I made my decision I talk to my friends, my teachers, my therapist and others close to me and knew me for a while and took their advise. I’ve never approached these kinds of decisions frivolously. We have only this life to live. In trying to live independantly and freely Ive lost two businesses, opportunities where I could have made more money, etc but I stand by my decisions and learned a lot from my failures and have no regrets.


      • Amen! Then you have based your very thoughtful decisions after much thought, advise from trusted professionals, intelligent and loving friends who live a respectful life…Not because you think individuality stems from running in the opposite direction from what people (society) want. And that my friend is called winning the game! But please know, the game will change as life goes on and will continue to challenge your strategy! Have fun and buona fortuna!


  1. If I was physically a man, I’d almost certainly be a MGTOW. As it is, I already have a lot of difficulty talking to/dealing with women…most of the ones in my area have a slight vein of misandry running through them. Perhaps I see it more because I remember people easily, but when a wife or girlfriend mention every. single. time. they come into my store that they “wish my guy didn’t have such silly hobbies”…okay, we get it. You’re not a gamer, you think playing with miniatures or acting out rpgs is a waste of time. You don’t have to put your man down in public every day…no one is going to give you an award for being a bitchy woman.

    I’m also not a part of any men’s rights/women’s rights movements. I’m egalitarian, but have been accused of being an MRA numerous times. Why? Because I tend to think that while women do get the short end of the stick sometimes, men on average get it worse. So, more of my sympathies go towards men since they need it more. I think women need to break beyond benevolent sexism, whereas men need to break beyond regular sexism.

    What do you think, Dave?


    • Yo TarnsZ !!!

      For the record before I continue. You’re a lot more of a dude than some dudes I know. If you were physically a dude I would volunteer to be your wing man 😀 just on the basis of mutual respect, and I’d hand over some sacred dude philosophies and stuff lol !!

      You know I’ve always tried to go my own way as much as I could stand to in life. I do not know much about the MGTOW movement but I advocate
      searching for meaning outside social norms and dictates. We have only one life, why purposefully do something that doesnt satisfy/fulfil you ? I think finding your own way becomes especially important when society is in flux like ours is know.I believe allegiances to one’s inner sense of self is where our allegiance should be.

      I do not feel that women are on average more mature than the average man is. The amount of bitchiness, condescending attitudes, and emotional terrorism is fucking horrific. I think that both genders suffer from this sort of fragmentation of the self, which perhaps comes from a lack of personal growth maybe, a lack of psychological and emotional maturity. I feel it manifests itself differently in each case.

      I think that each gender has a different set of problems I cannot tell the extent to which suffers more. I do feel that men’s issue are completely swept under the rug though. I have also notice that there is no place to go if you are a dude and wanna talk dude shit. I was gonna start a podcast and blog with a buddy of mine just for dude shit, like a safe haven sorta thing.

      Look at your comment about benevolent sexism and regular sexism, I feel that there is a level of complexity to things that we do not account for when these subjects are talked about. The Subpopulation of men in the USA is so diverse. I mention this here because your cool, but I do kind of feel that as a negro the demonization of masculinity is much much more puissant and insidious and impactful. Any expression of masculinity in these sub-population affected by race carries on such different connotations. Long story short the different sub-populations are not policed the same way so the ramification of this demonization has such varying and far reaching effects depending on the community we are talking.

      I have to look up benevolent sexism a get back to you. I don’t have the lingo down. Ill be back hope you are well


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